april_art: Non-BJD--Getting Another Car Blues...

april (

april_art) wrote,
@ 2007-11-29 17:37:00

Current mood:

stressed

Non-BJD--Getting Another Car Blues...
OK... so I take my car in because the brake pad lights are on. I also note that my low coolant light has come on a few times and I'd had to top the coolant off, which worried me concerning leaks--and worried me more because it might mean engine problems...

Well, aside from needing all new pads and rotors for the brakes, the technician said there was oil in the coolant, which was a Very Bad Sign, as in, he definitely thought there was something wrong with the engine... if I was lucky, it was just the top part--a crack in the cylinder head--which is major... they'd need to go in there and take a look (which already meant spending money on labor, even before repairs or parts).

On the Friday of Thanksgiving Weekend, I get a message on my phone: it's not just the head, it's the engine block that is cracked. It's the worst-case scenario. The car is not worth repairing unless you're really handy with getting and putting in new engines by yourself, basically. And trade-in is pretty much zero. (It's a seven year old car.)

So... I've spent the whole week going to the dealership, checking out new cars, used cars, going over figures... AND I SO SUCK AT THIS KIND OF STUFF... I've got a head-ache now like you wouldn't believe. There's a sort of deal going on a Certified-Pre-Owned 2004 with warranty 'til October '10... or I can spend $10,000 more and get a new with a full four year warranty (parts and labor, too, I think).

I'm beating my head against the desk trying to figure out what to do... I'm leaning towards the Pre-Owned... But my brother-in-law says it's a 3-4 year old car, even with low mileage, and all the parts on it will gradually need replacing and it's not worth it... bleh...

I'm deciding tonight whether to get the Used or keep looking... Meanwhile--really getting NOTHING done and am feeling very stressed and very poor!

If anyone knows about cars--please advise! I have no clue... (Actually, it really is just up to me, I know. Only I know all the factors--or I don't, but then no one is really much more in-the-know. But I have a hard enough time deciding where to go to dinner or deciding to buy this little plastic toy or that little plastic toy, much less buying a car. Crap.)

---Sorry, just need to scream or something--and LJ is kinda good for venting when just yelling in my empty apartment doesn't really give the same satisfaction!!!

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	batchix 2007-11-30 01:45 am UTC (link)
	I think it's worth it to get the new car. :/ You can always trade it in after four years and get something else. The pre-owned will degrade in value much faster and there's a chance that something will go wrong anyway. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	april_art 2007-11-30 05:40 am UTC (link)
	Unfortunately I'm coming off of buying my car brand new and having the engine conk out at 7 years--70,000 miles, which shouldn't happen, so I'm freaked by that, as well (new cars=not necessarily lasting!). :( (Reply to this)(Parent)

hotmarscube
2007-11-30 02:09 am UTC (link)

From a cost-wise standpoint, I'd say you'd have to decide if you are the type of person who gets a replacement vehicle every three to five years, or if you stick with a car until it dies the total death. It sounds like you are the type that avoids having to buy a car, therefore you hold onto it as long as possible. Therefore get the used one. It will save you 10 grand, and it is doubtful that the used will end up costing you that much in repairs over its life.

However, the new car will probably last longer, thereby creating the longest stretch of time until you have to do this again. So, it still comes down to what you prefer.

Good luck! Don't stress! Life goes on!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	definitely a lesbian garage. nealeinvan 2007-11-30 02:41 am UTC (link)
	mmm i take it to a lesbian garage. there is one here and they are fantastic, especially when you dont know dick about deat. dey do, not dick, dat.....:) at leawst its a second opinion. im sorry you are having car troubles, and remeber you are rich in online friends, lol! thinking good thoughts for you April:> (Reply to this)(Parent)

april_art
2007-11-30 05:48 am UTC (link)

I used to want to keep cars until they died... The car before last, I traded in at 10 years old and almost 150,000 miles... It was still running and all, but not worth all that much even so. This car isn't running, really (I was still driving it around with the crack in the engine, though!). And needs so much work that it's practically junk unless someone wants to play fix-up.

Now, I don't know... the car market has changed a lot. Certified Pre-Owned makes it a bit safer to buy Used. Lots of people lease or change in cars frequently... they don't even try to own. I really don't know what to do.

The car I'm looking at has 27,000 miles on it... not bad, really, and the carfax looks good. The car has been sold and serviced at the same Dealership, so they know the history (no major repairs--although that doesn't guarantee against something coming up!). BUT it is covered for almost everything for ALMOST the next 3 years... so that keeps the pressure off for 3 years. But with an older car, it'll be about 7 years old by the time the warranties go away... there's more of chance of major things going wrong. But as I said before, I had something bad happen with a relatively new car--it totally wasn't supposed to die this early, but it did... and I don't think I ignored any signs of overheating and I serviced it not frequently, but whenever the usual times were (I think they were fairly far apart-- every 13,000 miles for the scheduled maintenance... I know others check certain things every month--tires and oil and such. I guess I SHOULD do that, but I haven't been... Don't know if I'll get in better habits in the future, though. Usually I've had no problems with cars, but both my last ones were bought new...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	hotmarscube 2007-11-30 05:54 pm UTC (link)
	Here's what you do. Flip a coin, heads get a new one, tails get the used one. And if the moment the answer comes up you get a twinge of regret, ignore the result and do the opposite. ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

april_art
2007-11-30 08:39 pm UTC (link)

There's also putting off the whole thing and driving my mom's old car for a while...

However, how to get down to my Dad's to pick up said car is a bit of a logistical pain at the moment. My sister's kid is sick, so she can't drive me right now. This should not matter in my decision in the big scene of it all, but little things like this are seriously annoying... enough to influence the coin-flip, anyway! I'd be in a car, and for 10K less... and if it conks out on me in 3 years after the warranty, then I can deal with it then... heheh...

But is that a good way to come to a decision? Agh. I'm just chasing my tail here...! *___*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

hotmarscube
2007-11-30 09:40 pm UTC (link)

What you are really trying to do is to read the future. Will the new car outlast the used car? But that is unknown. The used one might make it for fifteen more years, while the new could die at seven, as you've just experienced. So it's a toss-up.

A car that has 27,000 miles on it is barely used. I put 27 thou on my van the first year I had it! It was probably a leased vehicle, and when the lease was up it returned to the dealer. And one thing you do know: it is not a lemon. With a new car you are rolling the dice. Unlikely, but certainly not unheard of.

So, in my mind, the used outweighs the new.

And truth be known, the only reason I've bought my last two cars new is because the monthly payments were less because you can do a 60 month finance with new cars, but only a 48 used. Really, if I didn't have that side of the equation, I would have bought slightly used.

Good luck! I wished I lived closer to LaLa land, I'd be happy to help you out with rides and whatnot.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

april_art
2007-12-01 12:13 am UTC (link)

Thank you SO much for the input. I'm really leaning towards the used, but just trying to decide if I'm being pre-mature and should look around more at other cars. The problem is--that I HATE car-shopping and would probably end up where I started, since this deal is not a bad deal to begin with, and the idea of going through all the checking and paperwork and dealing is a pain to me. I was just trying to reassure myself that I wasn't being a total car-buying wimp and avoiding the shopping and doing myself a disservice... but aside from what my brother-in has been saying, most people seem to think the used car is fine if that's the kind of car I want... And I'm sure I'd be happy with it, since it's pretty much EXACTLY like the car I had save for being 4 years newer...

I tell you, I am just THE WORST at making decisions. I'll tend to not do anything at all before I have to make one. My sister is annoyed and says I should just deal with it and go around and check everything out anyway... but I'm seriously getting head-aches and upset stomaches because of even this very simple decision (buy this particular used car or wait), so I'm think it does matter to my sanity if I can get into this used car... It's cheaper, it's something I'm familiar with and it's covered (mostly) for three years (for major work/problems).

It's good to know that I'm not making a totally BAD decision IF I go with the Used car, anyway.

And even though I've done all the paperwork already--the Salesman is now saying he could try and sweeten the deal. I have been so passive-agressive with the poor guy while trying to decide!!! Heheh. (But I hate being that way... I wish I had stronger opinions about things rather than just wanting to run away in terror!)

Thanks for offering to help if you lived closer--that's sweet! I DO have people I can call on, I just hate doing so! Another reason I'd prefer to make a decision one way or another and handle it myself... I'm now annoying myself in a major way. So annoying on top of already being annoyed! *___*

At least I'm fairly certain that this used car IS an option and I wouldn't be making a mistake with it... Still need to decide... I hope the salesman comes up with something really nice to sweeten the deal or I'll still be waffling until they close at 9pm! And then will need a rental car or taxi to get home! Heheh.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

My $0.02

melvh
2007-11-30 02:38 am UTC (link)

Just for the record, I've never had any problems after buying a "gently used" vehicle --which would include the "Certified Pre-Owned" category. If you're really not sure, ask them if you can test-drive it to your mechanic, though a dealership certification with warranty is a pretty good assurance that he won't find anything but normal wear for the mileage. Yes, it might break down sooner than the other one does, but $10,000 is a damn fine recompense for that. And at 3-4 years old, you won't have to worry about the possibility of manufacturer recall, which is always a risk with a new model.

But then again, that "new-car smell" gives me migraines, so I have to buy used.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: My $0.02

april_art
2007-11-30 05:50 am UTC (link)

I'm getting headaches just trying to decide... It's such a major expenditure and I SO cannot cope with major decision-making!!! I am such a wimp!

Thanks for the advise. I'm sure the used car will be fine, but I'm getting all kinds of helpful advice from my brother-in-law and his friends which pretty much ends up making me run in circles! (He's the one saying the car is too old and I should buy new... although I thought saving on that initial depreciation would counter-act that??? See, it's just making me spin!!!)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My $0.02

melvh
2007-11-30 04:08 pm UTC (link)

Well, I certainly don't want to add to your headaches, but if you're not comfortable spending huge gobs of money, then take the less expensive option.

I never buy a car less than 2 years old, and the most recent one I bought was 6 years old. It's more about the mileage than about the age. And, of course, whether the previous owner did the regular maintenance. If the car has less than 10K miles on it per year, then it's a good risk. If the mileage is more like 15K-20K per year, then it's a medium risk. (Do that math against the beginning of the model year, so a 2004 car would be 4 years old.) Again, the Dealership Certification & Warranty is a good indication that the car is fine. And, yes, $10,000 is easily enough to counter depreciation. (For this equation, the car is figured at three years old --the end of the model year.)

Another thing to consider is how many repairs that $10,000 will give you. Depending on the car, you could get a rebuilt engine, a new transmission, new brake system twice over, a new exhaust system, a new computer, 25 oil changes, and 2 new sets of tires for that money --at least at Pennsylvania prices. (And your car shouldn't need any of that except the oil changes & maybe tires for at least a year or two.)

Is there anyone you trust besides your brother-in-law that you can ask?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My $0.02

april_art
2007-11-30 08:25 pm UTC (link)

Thanks SO much for your input, Mel!!!

My brother in law was talking to the car broker he usually uses, and putting in LOTS of advice on his own (agh!). I do value it, but it's also nice to get some other help--and I definitely need help since I have never bought a car on my own before (yes, it's about time I did it myself!).

I'm only slightly pressured because this particular car I'm looking at has good mileage--27,000 on a 2004 year. It also has been bought and serviced and turned into the same Dealership--so they know the entire history (unless it's been secretly repaired somewhere, which I doubt).

I was looking on the JD Powers ratings and while the model isn't up there with a Lexus with perfect ratings, it's still rated good. And it does come with complete coverage for parts and repairs for nearly three more years (BUT there's a $50 deductable each visit, which is new cars don't have), and the factory maintenance warrenty is good for 2 years. So it's almost like buying new, but for the age of the car... which is what my brother-in-law and his broker is worrying over... They keep saying things will start falling apart as soon as I get it! I'm not sure why, exactly, since my brother-in-law has owned older cars and this one is only 4 years old we're talking about. Maybe there's something I'm missing--but I don't know!

I think it's because my engine just blew up in my 7 year old car--I'm all paranoid and so are they... But surely I couldn't be that unlucky twice in a row? My car before this one was still running fine at 10 years and 150,000 miles... *sigh*

On the other hand... service and parts on this car is very high. It's a luxury car, low end, but still pricey... But if I started worrying about that then I'd just get into a nice used Corolla, like the wise people who have mentioned having those... But now I'm rambling...!

The point about the amount of repairs that 10k covers is a good one.

Sadly, I'm lacking in friends who know a lot about cars. You'd think I'd know more, since everyone has one...! But I can't think of good car people, just people with cars, which is entirely different!

But you, and others here, are helping so much. A few outside opinions are just like gold, really!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My $0.02

melvh
2007-12-01 05:08 pm UTC (link)

Hey, no problem. That's what friends are for.

I've been buying my own cars since I was 20, and working on/repairing the family Volkswagens long before that.

Can your B-i-L explain why he thinks this one is destined to collapse as soon as you purchase it? Dealer certifications are pretty reassuring in this day & age, and the fact that you've still got warranties in force should count for something as well. The dealership isn't likely to sell you something they'll have to throw lots more money into when it breaks down.

The trick to making even an older car last is to keep up with the preventative maintenance. Oil changes every 3000 miles. Have air filters & all other fluids checked every 2 oil changes. Check tires & belts every 4 oil changes. Here, I have the car "winterized" each fall --flush & fill coolant, fuel filter change, have tires rotated & balanced, replace windshield wipers. But, since you don't have ice, snow & road salt to cope with, you may be able to go longer before dealing with the wipers & coolant. Brakes should be checked once a year --do you have to get your car inspected by the State? If so, they'll keep you posted about the status of your brakes & tire treads. Sparks plugs should be checked at least once every two years, and spark plug wires should be changed every third time you change the plugs themselves.

It's actually pretty easy to keep to if you make yourself a little checklist & keep it with your maintenance records. That way, when it comes time for an oil change, you can look & see if you want the mechanic to peek around at any of the other systems that break down over time.

Like I said, I bought my last car about 2.5 years ago. It was six years old & had 40K miles on it. In the time I've had it, I've put on another 55K miles. Other than the regular oil changes & a new set of tires, I've only had to put about $1,000 into it: new brakes, a new battery, a couple of fan belts, spark plugs & wire. Not bad for a car that only cost me $4,000. I may not be able to keep it around for another 100K miles, but she's still in pretty good shape. It's a Hyundai, but I got about 150K miles out of the Saturn I had before this one, too. The point at which I end of giving up on the car is when the clutch/transmission goes, since I drive stick shifts & repairs on those are through the roof.

Again, good luck! And when you make up wour mind, I wanna see a picture.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My $0.02

april_art
2007-12-01 10:29 pm UTC (link)

I went with the Pre-Owned... I was still on the line all the way, but I don't feel like getting into a new right now and I'm so sucky at dealing with salesmen that even with help I'm sure I'd get run-over if I had to check out all the deals and try and make something work... This way I don't have to worry about that and about depreciation as much... And I'm fairly confident I wasn't making a disastrous mistake.

B-i-L was mostly going on what his car-broker friend was saying--that new is better, or at least just a year or two old... Of course the parts will be better on new. Other problems--could happen on new and old, and old has a slightly higher probability because of age--particularly after the warrenties all end. I'm just guessing here.

It makes a certain amount of sense, really. But I'd got into a new car that died after the warranty was up... so crap can happen either way--was my thinking. I wanted to make sure I wasn't getting into a problem car with the Used--but did a quick on-line check and people seem fine with it, and it's been out there, so known problems should have shown up... Oh, well.

I definitely need to be more pro-active with the oil checks! I'm still trying to figure out what happened with my blown-up engine--it HAS to be something I did to help it along... More oil checks would have at least caught the problem earlier--or maybe before the engine was damaged, I'm guessing... Or the coolant... That may have had a leak and caused the over-heating (which I never saw on the gauge... but I guess that doesn't always show up in time. I think sometimes by the time you see it over-heating on the gauge it's probably too late! What happens, happens... but yes, at least being more careful with oil and checkups would at least give peace of mind and hopefully make the odds against stuff going wrong much better!

I still think I didn't make the best deal... as I said, I'm just not good at it! But the experience was a learning one and I'll be better next time... And I'll see for myself how it goes with a Pre-Owned car this time, etc.

Heheh... financing just called, they want more proof of income... this could be tricky, since I'm making next to nothing right now, but do have money in the bank. Too bad that never seems to count as much as you'd think...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

hbruton
2007-11-30 02:55 am UTC (link)

Ouch bad news. Oddly enough Marg and I are going out to pick up her new car tomorrow. Her trusty 1997 Corolla was showing signs that it was time to replace it.... with a 2008 Corolla. Yes, we are loyal Toyota buyers in this household. I've never bought a car in my life so I can't give you any advice. I can vouch for Toyota's though. Great mileage, good price, a solid workhorse car. Nothing fancy, kinda blah colours, no umph in the engine but it will go forever. And to me a car is just a means of transportation. Good luck!

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	winter_elf 2007-11-30 04:07 am UTC (link)
	runs out to hug my car! I've got a 1997 Corolla currently, and it's running great. And it's even green! :) hmm... what was going wrong with Marg's? And yea, I had replaced my 1987 Corolla with a 1997 Corolla... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

april_art
2007-11-30 05:55 am UTC (link)

I think it's the most stolen model of car, though, isn't it??? I'd worry about that, living in L.A. where things like cars disappear even in gated parking lots!!! (Someone drove a car right through the gate of my last apartment building, as they were stealing it!)

But the Corollas certainly are VERY reliable and great for the price... I can actually drive my mom's old Toyota around if I'm not getting a car right away--so my sister is thinking I'm an idiot for worrying--but that just puts off my decision that'll need to be made sometime soon... and the logistics of trading cars around is also messing with my head. I hate to ask people for favors and so far they aren't offering freely--so I'm feeling stressed. I know I should just ask, but, gah...

And there's this nice Pre-Owned car I can just drive away with... I even have the paperwork mostly done. But am I only doing it because it's EASY? GAH....

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hbruton
2007-11-30 06:13 am UTC (link)

Winterelf. Canadian winters are rough on cars. There's some sizable rust from the salt and winter road conditions. And we've put a lot of kilometres on it. There's nothing majorly wrong, it's just starting to have lots of little problems. Rather than deal with a long, slow death and lots of little repairs it was decided to replace it. We got a nice trade in value in on it though:)

April. I belive it's the Toyota Camry that is the most stolen. It's a step up from the Corolla. Mind you, any Toyota holds it's resale value pretty well.

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april_art
2007-11-30 09:02 am UTC (link)

Oh, right... Can't keep my Toyotas straight! It's the Camry at #1. But the Corolla is #10. The Camry is the one down at my Dad's house.

Yeah, road salt is tough.

NICB's Most Stolen Cars in America...

1. Toyota Camry
2. Honda Accord
3. Honda Civic
4. Chevrolet Full Size C/K Pickup
5. Ford Full Size Pickup (150/250/350)
6. Jeep Cherokee/Grand Cherokee
7. Oldsmobile Cutlass/Supreme/Ciera
8. Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan
9. Ford Taurus
10. Toyota Corolla
11. Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth Neon
12. Nissan Sentra
13. Chevrolet Caprice
14. Ford Explorer
15. Chevrolet Cavalier

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	hbruton 2007-11-30 04:33 pm UTC (link)
	We went and looked at the Honda Civic too. Pretty equal to the Corolla but with a peppier engine. But man those seats were uncomfortable. This household tends to Toyota or Honda. We have a number of friends who love their Subaru's too but the mileage is no where near as good as the first two. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	april_art 2007-11-30 08:32 pm UTC (link)
	Well, the reason cars are stolen is because people really like those models... They're good and reliable. Heheh... so the Corolla had more comfortable seats, eh? That's important! One has to sit in the car, after all... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	winter_elf 2007-11-30 04:06 am UTC (link)
	I bought a 'certified pre-owned' 4 year old car when I got my car in 2000. I did have a mechanic come onto the lot and give the car a quick check. The sales man was all fine with it, and even encouraged me to have it checked out as much as I wanted to. I've never had any trouble with it. Like Heather, I've got a 1997 Corolla. I couldn't afford a new one at the time. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	april_art 2007-11-30 05:57 am UTC (link)
	Corollas last forever... They're probably very recommended as a certified pre-owned. Bleh... I should just do that... but then I have my old car to get rid of... stress (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	hbruton 2007-11-30 04:35 pm UTC (link)
	Most car places are happy to take a trade in. You might not get much for it but they'll at least give you something and take it away so you don't have to deal with it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

april_art
2007-11-30 08:29 pm UTC (link)

Yeah... I can get rid of it, I think... Now I have to worry about how to get from the dealership to my apartment and after that. I could rent a car or take a taxi, I suppose, but what a pain... the logistics still annoy me. but I guess I'll just have to figure it out and deal.

OR just buy the Certified Pre-Owned! Or am I just bowing to the convenience of it??? Bleh...

'Need to flip that coin, as Bruce/Hotmarscube suggests!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

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